Forum:2019-09-09 (Monday)
Discussion for comic for . By the typing of your thumbs, something wiki this way comes. ---- So, are we to take "darlings" as a sign that this is a Lucrezia clone? Bkharvey (talk) 05:53, September 9, 2019 (UTC) :I'm inclined to think so. Whether my barrier theory is right or not, I think this means that Lucrezia has a real presence in this age. So this is the first clear premeditated Lucrezia attack we've seen. The Other has finally arrived? (But why hasn't this happened before?) Edit: moved this paragraph to what I meant to respond to. Quantheory (talk) 06:00, September 9, 2019 (UTC) ::I'm 99% sure this is Lunevka, who I've been expecting to see again since it was revealed Zola wasn't inside the time stop. I wonder if they're still working together or if she's figured out Lucrezia-in-Zola is trapped. PhoenixTalion (talk) 08:08, September 9, 2019 (UTC) :::Oh, maybe... but then, why does she need armor? Bkharvey (talk) 08:46, September 9, 2019 (UTC) :::: Because clank!Anevka's body is built based off of Van Rijn's design, which aren't designed as tanks. It might not even be armor, just Lunevka's head swapped out on to special battle-bod. PhoenixTalion (talk) 08:59, September 9, 2019 (UTC) P.S. If Snacky could zap all the grey hoods at once, can't Albia take care of all the ninjas at once? Bkharvey (talk) 05:56, September 9, 2019 (UTC) :Vapnoople made the same point when asking about why Snacky didn't fry him. Apparently that was a very wasteful expenditure of energy, even for a "godling". Quantheory (talk) 06:15, September 9, 2019 (UTC) ::It also might not be great for Trelawny, who is already apparently in for a hell of a hangover once she stops channeling divine power. PhoenixTalion (talk) 08:08, September 9, 2019 (UTC) I feel like this was inevitable because Agatha needed to fight an enemy at least as bad as what the Heterodyne Boys fought. But also it's puzzling, because this seems to be a fully empowered Lucrezia/Other, and why hasn't that person shown up before? Setting aside the Enigma appearance at the very beginning of the comic. Maybe she doesn't want to interfere with anything before, or too close to, Agatha releasing the Muse for van Rijn's Hermitorium? Anyway, I guess we're about to find out what Albia has done to prepare for this in the last few millennia. And maybe a bit about how the channel through Trelawney works, perhaps. Quantheory (talk) 06:15, September 9, 2019 (UTC) ::I don't think this is a time-traveling iteration of Lucrezia, just the one pretending to be Anevka, who has been unaccounted for since the Mechanicsburg hospital. I'm more interested in how/when Lucrezia-in-Agatha apparently managed to call for help. These guys aren't just going off the knowledge that the Heterodyne is in England -- Lucrezia called out to them, apparently knowing they were here for her. PhoenixTalion (talk) 08:08, September 9, 2019 (UTC) :::If you mean she called out to them a couple of pages ago, that was (as Argadi reminded me) after they paged her. But if L-in-A was able to whip up a big zap gun in between sabotaging the removal device, she could also have whipped up a radio. Bkharvey (talk) 08:46, September 9, 2019 (UTC) So, her right hand looks mechanical. But her left hand looks natural—except for the fact that the fingernails are growing out of the second knuckles (proximal interphalangeal joints) rather than out of the fingertips. Bkharvey (talk) 06:43, September 9, 2019 (UTC) : Pretty sure those are just the same hinges as on her other hand. PhoenixTalion (talk) 08:08, September 9, 2019 (UTC) :: If so, I'd expect to see them on the 3rd knuckles too. Bkharvey (talk) 08:46, September 9, 2019 (UTC) :: P.S. In retrospect, I thought of her as organic partly because I took the brown things on the sides of her face as hair. But looking more closely, I see that they're smooth, so most likely a plastic gasket holding the head in place in the body. Especially since below the face is a "neck" much too narrow to be human. Bkharvey (talk) 15:01, September 9, 2019 (UTC) Could this be THE Lucrezia? The one we never saw completely at Sturmhalten, just the chair? (Vol 6, pg061) And only parts of in Vrin's memories? The weapon she carries is similar to the spear weapons of the Geisterdamen. Tarvek's reaction will be telling, if we see it. Doug Relyea (talk) 10:32, September 9, 2019 (UTC) : The consensus of opinion around here is that what was in the chair was the clank head that would later be attached to clank-Anevka's body. Bkharvey (talk) 11:52, September 9, 2019 (UTC) That staff--a gravity weapon ? Bosda Di'Chi (talk) 11:00, September 9, 2019 (UTC) : Or part of Prende's Lantern.. --Geoduck42 (talk) 22:45, September 9, 2019 (UTC) ::Given the relationship of gravity to the space-time continuum, the two are not mutually exclusive. Bosda Di'Chi (talk) 11:24, September 10, 2019 (UTC) If y'all are right that this is Lunevka, which half of that does Albia find strange? The Otherness, or the clankness? Bkharvey (talk) 11:56, September 9, 2019 (UTC) : Disregard my opinion this is any Lucrezia. This is The Other, the Lady the Geisterdamen worship. The muses as built by Van Rijn were his attempt to duplicate/replicate her. (And maybe she wanted spare parts). That is why Albia finds it strange, it's someone she had not encountered yet.Doug Relyea (talk) 12:41, September 9, 2019 (UTC) :: Don't you think looks an awful lot like Lucrezia? Even when she turned up pregnant, they recognized her. And I don't quite understand your idea about the sequence of events. Are you saying that the Other, a clank, existed back in van Rijn's day, continued to exist long enough to take over Lucrezia (when? before or after she married Bill?), and is now showing up to rescue Lu-in-Agatha? But if she's the original Other, why is she even bothering about Lucrezia, a mere Calling? Bkharvey (talk) 14:55, September 9, 2019 (UTC) ::: Their Lady has different looks. The aspect which appeared when Lady Vrin was a novice looks different from the pregnant Lucrezia, and the unhappy Mistress later has a robotic arm. "The same lovely aspect" phasing suggests to me that other aspects were known. Argadi (talk) 15:29, September 9, 2019 (UTC) :::: True, but if I'm understanding Doug's theory correctly, none of them should look like Lu. They should all be clanks. Bkharvey (talk) 16:08, September 9, 2019 (UTC) : I think it's the clank half. Albia's specialty seems to be the human mind, and I don't think we have an example so far of her doing her mind reading trick on a mechanical one. PhoenixTalion (talk) 17:01, September 9, 2019 (UTC) :Vrin Lucrezia, Agatha's mother, was/is the Other. --Fred1740 (talk) 16:34, September 10, 2019 (UTC) :: I think it's pretty clear that Lu is the Other now. (Bear in mind that that doesn't mean she's the only Other embodiment.) The real question is whether she's the original Other. Bkharvey (talk) 22:42, September 10, 2019 (UTC) I think the key point is that she didn't recognize this new Big Bad as Lucrezia, even though she's been going through her memories of dealing with Lucrezia in a variety of forms over centuries. Other key points include the Chekhov's Demolition Charges that are embedded in the Dome, and possibly Prende's Lantern. The ultimate fallback to this whole mess is blowing the dome with all these problems in it (Trelawney, at least, will get a state funeral). It's possible we'll see some of our heroes rescued from the dome by whoever has Prende's Lantern, possibly in using the lantern to freeze the explosions in progress until the people are into the sub. Or something like that. As for how they know where Lucrezia is, it seems that British imperial secrecy leaks like a sieve underwater. If Seffie could find out within hours of arriving in London, who couldn't? Yes, there might be a time loop involved, but there's no reason yet to eliminate simple espionage. heteromeles : I think as Argadi does, the Geisterdamen have a different set of senses, and Lucrezia turned out to be a genetic body or brain double that human genetics throws into the mix all the time. Loremistress Mistleville was right, Lucrezia is not The Other. She is of sufficient bent of mind however, The Other found her a suitable Lieutenant, once her mind was broken after the attack on Castle Heterodyne and subsequent abduction. Lucrezia has been useful to The Other, and must have something The Other wants or needs. : The plot armor here might be the simple Vozzler, Mega - Ognian, or a Spark driven creation yet to be divised by the present assemblage of Sparks, as well as the items heteromeles mentioned.Doug Relyea (talk) 18:28, September 9, 2019 (UTC) :: Interesting. I had interpreted Milvistle as meaning that the Geisters had a pre-Other religion with a Goddess, and that Lu took advantage of that by claiming to be the Goddess (who, like most gods, had not previously manifested physically) and that that was what Milvistle was denying. That would be orthogonal to her Otherness. Remember, "Other" was just a name that people gave to the then-mysterious enemy of the sparks, not an official self-proclaimed title. I'm thinking it'll turn out that when Lu's lab exploded it let loose the radioactive spiders, or something, and that's how she became the Other. But it's true that someone else initiated the attack on the Castle, and maybe that's the ur-Other, who then Impressed Lu. Bkharvey (talk) 21:23, September 10, 2019 (UTC) ::: I've assumed that she conned the Geisters into thinking she was immortal by using time travel. --Geoduck42 (talk) 21:27, September 10, 2019 (UTC) :::: Certainly she conned them into thinking she could predict the future that way, so maybe you're right. Bkharvey (talk) 21:28, September 10, 2019 (UTC) By the way, isn't that thing in her hand meant to be a lance? And if so, doesn't attaching it to her arm so close to the business end defeat the purpose? Bkharvey (talk) 21:28, September 10, 2019 (UTC) : A lance is likely what it started as. It now appears to have the working part(s) of Prende's Lantern floating between the horns. Doug Relyea (talk) 23:58, September 10, 2019 (UTC) Wouldn't this be a great time to switch story lines. (The sneaky gate isn't opened.) Argadi (talk) 01:10, September 11, 2019 (UTC) : Didn't happen. (Am I'm glad.) Argadi (talk) 15:45, September 11, 2019 (UTC)